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ONK kortebaan late October (update 16-5-2012)

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The KNZB site is the fixture list for next season appeared with one very striking fact.
Unlike previous years, the Open Dutch Championships Short Course in 2012 will not take place in early December but already late October.
The tournament which probably also will serve as a qualifying tournament for the European Championships and World Short Course, both of which find place in December, is scheduled for the weekend of 26, 27 and 28th of October.

It may be mentioned at least noteworthy that the Royal Dutch Swimming Federation has taken this decision. In a post-Olympic season is the motivation of top swimmers to take part in the European Championships and World Short Course often limited. If they keep after the Olympics conclude equally tasty holiday, a qualifier comes late October further very early.
If the tournament is intended for swimmers who do not appear at the start in London, then the impact of the shift is very large for a very small group with realistic qualification chances.
For swimmers who are motivated / promising, even a World Cup game can be considered qualifier. These are scheduled for 13-14 of October (Stockholm), 17-18 October (Moscow) and 20/12 of October (Berlin).

For North Netherlands means the new date of the ONC also that it will fall in the second weekend of the autumn, for middle and southern Netherlands falls on the weekend after the autumn.

Update (25-4-2012): Partly in response to the comments below, we have contacted the KNZB and laid there the following mail:

The new calendar of 2012-2013 is the Dutch Open Short Course scheduled for late October, is this correct?

As a trainer, this seems a very undesirable situation.
By abolishing the limits 25m pool for the summer NK are clubs / swimmers 'forced' to starting February / March as possible to swim their matches in a 50m pool. This means that there is less of a 25m pool to swim and so swimmers will have to get their limits for the Dutch Open short course even after the summer holidays. With a limit period of time that closes the beginning of October is believed that virtually impossible.

Furthermore, I think it is also against the regulations of the Royal Dutch Swimming Federation itself:
"Dutch Winter Swimming Championships.
a. The Dutch Winter Swimming Championships every year between December 1 and 30
April organized "

In this mail we received the following response:

The ONK kb is indeed scheduled for late October.
Your mail, telling us they would have a trainer like it, I have forwarded to Titus Mennen.
The limit period is extended from next season for all National Championships. This will mean that the deadline to register will be placed on 15 Oct and one t / m Oct 14. can reach the limits.
There is also an amendment to the rules in the making, in which we modify the rules at that point

Of course, we here again responded, this time with the question of why this rather radical change.
From the KNZB indicated that they will provide only the information through official channels and
If there are trainers who are interested in the motives of the KNZB for decisions taken, they themselves can always contact the KNZB. For more information about the movement of the Dutch Open Short Course in October Titus Mennen is the right contact person.

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  1. Giant is a pity such a decision for the sport. A short period of time in order to obtain a limit. a training structure which even the coach does not get in his planning and thus a devaluation of the tournament. Incidentally, I received the signal that this shift is not unique. Again, the rest of the Netherlands to make way for a maybe this time it very select group of swimmers. I understand that qualifying for a tournament to take place but for the exposure of swimming you want to NK yet also see toppers. That will not swim here so soon after the OS. Losers everywhere. If swimming Netherlands no longer tolerate such decisions will need to take action. I hope the union can listen to its members and does not rule from an ivory tower.

  2. Is this not contrary to Article 22.2 of the KNZB swim own rules?

    "Dutch Winter Swimming Championships.
    a. The Dutch Winter Swimming Championships every year between December 1 and 30
    April organized "

    (Regelement on )

  3. What has not clearly stated in the reports is that NEK 1 week, 2 weeks and the competition has moved forward. This is actually no reason, or it should do with the NK kb have.
    In short, that means already reserved baths should be rescheduled for the competition and the question is whether there is still place. Moreover, already scheduled neighborhoods in those weekends, which also has consequences.

  4. NK must be the most important tournament for the entire Dutch top. Qualification for international tournaments does not quite happen during a championship. If that calendar technically fit is of course nice to see the absolute top form on NK in action, but if they are not there, or not in top form, NK is also a nice tournament.

    This decision deprives the KNZB a lot of national elite and sub-elite one of their two most important tournaments. Limits swimming in September and in top form in October is impossible when a season begins around September 1st. Shift to January, I found a much better plan.

  5. End of school North Netherlands September 2 taper week 22 to 25 October
    So build in only 7 weeks to peak condition for NK Short Course what so many swimmers have their own charm and one of the three blast moments should be for the sub-elite.

    Maybe it's time to put on an organized counter-action from swimming clubs against these union officials and the (assistant) coaches selections and RTCs
    Everything we now turn to a very small group of stars that can at European and World Championships Short Course.
    The rest of the Netherlands job filling which may add to the wild ideas of the elite group

    There are more decisions in the past period which underpin this. Afterwards we talk all the crooked straight again.

  6. As often again half an answer from (assistant) bondcaoches and the union.
    They're going to adapt the regulations can, but at the moment the old rules still apply.
    The article KNZB if considered necessary, the regulations may aanpssen or otherwise deploy missing in this section of the regulations.

    Incidentally, the KNZB site:

    The fixture swimming 2012-2013 is known. The calendar during the annual meeting with the Circle Swim Committees last Thursday established.

    Have apparently still circle 14 representatives not realize what the impact of this change is the largest group of swimmers that they are supposed to represent.
    Perhaps an action towards the KZC's to ask what arguments are used in this consultation .......

    Extending the time limit has in my opinion nothing to do with the much shorter period of preparation and physical condition to the peak moment NK KB
    This year the swimmers in North Netherlands screwed. But that of course is different every year.
    It means that already in the summer should start exercising / training structure, so that from the 1st full week of training (in September) can be filled dragged to build in the next 7 weeks.

    Also sub-elite are entitled to 6 weeks even really NOT think of swimming and it does so no longer.

    For the toppers to EYOF / EJK / EK / OS limit have met the ONK KB no longer feasible, since the (replacement) and EYOF European Youth Championships and European Championships and OS mean that it in August / September, the rest are, than 4 weeks full again be at the start for the ONK KB seems impossible. Fortunately, which will have all limits already though, so limit games can be seen as a check point.

    If we are the 1st or 2nd week of December a ONK KB keep you just 5 or 6 additional weeks => one long or two short opbouwcyclussen additional and squint a big sip on a cocktail of performance that can be delivered.

    Partly by choice in 2011 a NK LB extra to label as kwaificatiemoment for the OS and the NK KB 2012 as qualifying time for European and World Championships KB and also to advance ... .. is clear that choices made in Nieuwegein! !
    Subtop and width athletes must comply with the optimization of schedules and qualification times of toppers. The NK KB is an event that is no longer taken seriously. Hopefully this does not apply to the sub-elite and community sport.

  7. A person may perform at the Short Course European Championships when he was only on the NK kortebaan achieved the limit? There are no limits also known for the EC / WC Short Course in 2012.

  8. Harold, The competition is not just two weeks earlier. Perhaps with respect to the first calendar. Then, I have not seen. But the first league is always around October 1st. So sometimes late September.

    Furthermore KNZB in this way again a joke.
    Like politicians, their own rules / regulations not comply, and afterwards say that there is a change in the rules. HAHA.

  9. Kim: Have in themselves are right, the calendar was not final and therefore the 1st round of competition could be moved elsewhere. But I'm sure there are clubs get into trouble because they no longer can rent bathwater. Some bathe you need more than a year before capturing the bath. Either: The calendar is published for practical reasons too late, especially now that he is different from the provisional calendar.

    About the fact that the first round could take place also in September, you're absolutely right, in 2007 was the first competition weekend 29th and 30th September.

  10. I do not why this NK as qualifying time should apply. Most of those who adhere to limits will ws may be difficult in top form.

    1. If you do want a qualification time can easily these people an extra game to be organized. Seems to me a few years ago happens again, I think Fri EK Langebaan, as sub-elite are not "their NK robbed. And why not just let the swim cups with retroactive effect?

    2. Short Course tournaments are always drawn 25 and 50 limits. You may assume that when the contenders were in top form. For those few who took the extra time next race may be used.

  11. I want to respond to the message from Frank. Of the 14 groups were 12 groups present, if we show of hands with the circles (which had the ONK against the earlier date objections) were counted, then I can say that there had been at least 10 circles that opposed it, unfortunately KNZB felt this need and this has been said to pass within the KNZB. The circles are in the interests of all their associations and they are certainly aware of what this means for the swimmers. Some circles have even suggested boycotting the race, but obviously that's not the circles.
    Then the calendar was always like this concept and is indeed established during the meeting circles, as also was the case, options for a bath then you also inferior to conservation.

  12. Kim: There is (or rather was) not for nothing more calendar years. There, on planned mainly by the Masters who want to stay as much as possible outside the NK and competites, but also for other competitions and as Martin says to settle on time bathwater for competitions ed. Now the consequence that you any longer can plan. In our bath in Eindhoven where rents the whole swimming world and beyond bathwater, you really need to be on time. Incidentally, I am told that you can swim at best odds in another weekend league, but if that happened on a large scale have so 3 weekends for that. Advice is so nice to stay in your reservation if you can not otherwise.

  13. Harold, I'll give you quite right, and certainly in Eindhoven. You do not play that way. We Limburg have until June the Delegates Assembly regarding the calendar. And then I will only request the bath. That can be happy. All will the coming season also more difficult since there is a new bath in 2013.

  14. Dianne
    If this is true, it is even sadder. The regulations are flouted. For it to put it right afterwards we will modify the rules of course equally. The present members of the KZC are informed but apparently not taken seriously, because why would you calibrate your policy to let these experts vote or express their opinion heavily in the final decision. Unbelievable. And then on your website state as a smokescreen that the swimming calendar is determined by a meeting with the TC. Maybe circuit boards, KZC and TCs associations are all protesting via email against this undemocratic. And swimmers may no less than 2 weeks longer hunt limits, so that with the tongue on the slippers will be at the start at the NK KB.
    Sin to demote a nice tournament to a lottery in the middle of the building while the top to the European and World Championships KB limits should swim just add to their training regime after major international tournaments this summer.
    KNZB ... turn this weird decision back!

  15. I am very curious about the response of the KNZB to the last question in the introduction to this question.
    I fear that swimming Netherlands there are again suitable for everyone and again behind the absurd ideas of our TD and coaches drag. Pity.

  16. Leo: Shall we think that has to do with the last holiday season :(

    The top will be simply placed on these two tournaments KB obv past performance and shape retention in the NK KB Be it performance on the international LB tournaments this summer.

    Then the KNZB ihkv training camps in preparation for this tournament KB handy to know who asked the rest of the (second tier) population must participate in these training camps. Hence mid-October.
    Then it does not matter whether or not fit comfortably in the structure of the relevant sub-elite. 1tje more or less does not matter. That the rest of swimming Netherlands this beautiful tournament drilled through the nose is just ... .. c'est la vie ... shrug.

    You could almost be cynical :)

  17. Leo: Unfortunately no response from the KNZB but since Jacco and Titus both abroad are / were not entirely unexpected. Titus I think back in the country now, so in the short term more info.

    Incidentally, we would be fine to be able to choose to organize a tournament in early December and the Dutch Open Short Course as test event can be considered (when the tournament gets).
    Less sharp limits 2 days with finals (Saturday and Sunday) and possibly direct finals on Friday night for the longer distances?
    Which weekend would be the best true?

  18. Uhm ... ridiculous that it is necessary, but tight plan. The weekend of the NK KB from the draft calendar but then :)

  19. Why KNZB not organize the Short Course Swim Cup? In addition, at least the OS-goers be able to count on a ticket to European and / or World Championships Short Course.

  20. Steven:
    The ASC KB is always organized by the Dolphin / NZA (in collaboration with the Royal Dutch Swimming Federation) end of October.
    Why the OS-goers must be specially treated. ... and therefore the European Youth Championships ... swimmers. and OTT'ers and ... ..

    KB is different LB: the OS-goers in the past year by the choice of the KNZB for LB tournaments in preparation for the OS (ONK KB autumn 2011 LB created ASC 2011 LB made ......) little 25 meters bathe seen, let alone an actual time have a qualifying tournament designated by the KNZB.
    Given the necessary rest and training structure of the OS-goers and European Championships and European Youth Championships KB participants who, after all, in July come into action seems a qualifying time in early December than opportune.

    But KNZB chooses itself to move the ONK KB to late October.
    Therefore ... equal monks gander .... either all just swim to get your European and World Championships KB Limits on the ONK KB end of October, but without proper training building ......
    That I (also for OS-goers) find an undesirable situation is clear.

  21. From the KNZB indicated that they will provide only the information through official channels and
    If there are trainers who are interested in the motives of the KNZB for decisions taken, they themselves can always contact the KNZB. For more information about the movement of the Dutch Open Short Course until October Titus Mennen is the right contact person.

  22. Leo writes: I hope the union can listen to its members and does not rule from an ivory tower. Last ONK LB there was much fuss, the Netherlands gave his opinion. Was accompanied listened ...... no. So I am afraid that this will now happen again.

  23. Casper: See my previous message and contact the KNZB. Giving an opinion is easy, something with / doing harder ;)

  24. Okay ... so if concerned parent (one of the major axes of the triangle), you only through a trainer - TC - KZC the opportunity to find out the reasons. That will be quite busy with requests for information through these channels. I know who I'm going to ask the circuit championships set :)

  25. Joost
    I think the cups always swim 50 meter pool games, I can not remember ASC in a 25 meter pool, except for the junior / youth competition.
    The decision to keep the Dutch Open in December on the back burner, I can find in me. This allows the potential OS-goers get an extra chance to qualify and limits could be achieved in 25 or 50 meter pool, like the previous edition (s) is also possible.

    The decision to keep the Dutch Open in late October, however, can only be explained if one is going to use this as a placement match for the European Championship and World Cup short track, but if it does then we could make this already known, eg. When publishing the calendar. This could prevent a lot of chatter.

    I guess I'll mail to Titus going to send the request on short notice through the official channels (I actually did not know the Swim Chronicle is labeled as official) to make known what have been the reasons for scheduling the Dutch Open in October . Perhaps they can combine it with the publication of the program and the rules.

  26. This afternoon at 16:04 hours, a mail sent to Titus tonight and got a reaction to 22:07 pm with a clear explanation.

  27. Give your positive or negative opinion about the relocation of the ONC. So follow the call / suggestion which is made previously and mail to Titus. Save the trepidation of you and let him know how you feel about it.

  28. Dirk
    The explanation may be obvious, but that the main debate remains.

    The question is what choice the coaches, the Royal Dutch Swimming Federation and its constituents (KZC's TCs) with respect to the National Championships?

    choice for the (sub) top .......
    qualification time at the ONK KB international touring beautiful when it is convenient (end of October)
    choice for all potential ONK KB populations ......
    date ONK KB (December / January) that best fits the training structure of the entire ONK KB swimmers population with you, bearing in mind the grassroots, taking into account the staggered holidays accepted captured and wide by the government in society => summer vacation runs from the last week of June to the 1st week of september!

    Either we do not assume that we midst start in the summer with full-time training for only the club's top selection, regardless of whether that given the holiday period from pool staff in the various municipalities anyway is to organize the holiday season, some baths are simply closed because the staff is required in the outdoor pools / water parks and even independently of any additional rental of bathing water.

    And yes the (families of) swimmers benefit from 6 weeks of real holiday: no school, no swimming;
    that sometimes already in the first training vacation ihkv build his is anything other than a full week of training from 14 -20 hours.

  29. Dirk,

    Can you view this clear explanation?

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