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ONK kortebaan late October (update 16-5-2012)

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On the KNZB site is the fixture of next season appeared with one very striking fact.
Unlike previous years, the Dutch Open Championship Short Course in 2012 did not take place in early December but already late October.
The tournament which probably also will serve as a qualifying tournament for the European and World Championships Short Course, which are both held in December, is scheduled for the weekend of 26th, 27th and 28th of October.

It may be called at least remarkable that the KNZB has taken this decision. In a post-Olympic season is the motivation of top swimmers to take part in the European and World Championships Short Course often limited. If they keep after the Olympics acts as nice vacation, a qualifier comes late October further very early.
If the tournament is intended for swimmers who do not appear at the start in London, then the impact of the shift is very large for a very small group with realistic qualification chances.
For swimmers who are motivated / promising, even a World Cup game can be classified as qualifier. These are scheduled for 13/14 of October (Stockholm), 17-18 October (Moscow) and 20/12 of October (Berlin).

For North Netherlands means the new date of the ONC also that it will fall into the second weekend of the autumn, for central and southern Netherlands falls on the weekend after the autumn.

Update (25-4-2012): Partly in response to the comments below, we have contacted the KNZB and laid there the following mail:

The new calendar of 2012-2013 is the Dutch Open Short Course scheduled for late October, is this correct?

As a trainer, this seems a very undesirable situation.
By abolishing the 25m pool limits for summer NK are clubs / swimmers 'forced' to starting February / March as possible to swim their matches in a 50m pool. This means that there is less of a 25m pool and swam so swimmers will have to get their limits for the ONK kortebaan even after the summer holidays. With a limit period that closes the beginning of October that is virtually impossible.

Furthermore, according to me also against the regulations of the KNZB itself:
"Dutch Winter Swimming Championships.
a. The Dutch Winter Swimming Championships every year between December 1 and 30
April organized "

In this email we received the following response:

ONK kb is indeed scheduled for late October.
Your mail, telling us they would have a trainer worth, I also sent to Titus Mennen.
The limit shall be extended from next season for all NC programs. This will mean that the deadline to register will be placed on 15 Oct and one t / m Oct 14. can reach the limits.
There is also an amendment of the regulations in the making, which we modify the rules at that point

Obviously we have here again responded, this time with the question of why this rather radical change of course.
From the KNZB indicated that they will provide only information through official channels and knzb.nl zwemkroniek.com.
If there are trainers who are interested in the motivations of the KNZB for decisions taken, then she is always able to contact the KNZB. For more information about the movement of the ONC Short Course until October Titus Mennen is the right contact person.

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29 Comments

  1. Giant is a pity such a decision for the sport. A short period of time to obtain a limit. a training structure that even the coach does not get in its planning and thus a devaluation of the tournament. Incidentally reached me the signal that this shift is not unique. Again, the rest of the Netherlands must give way to a maybe this time it very select group of swimmers. I understand that qualifying for a tournament to take place but for the exposure of swimming you want to NK yet also see toppers. Who do not swim here so soon after the OS. Losers everywhere. If swimming Netherlands no longer tolerate such decisions will have to take action. I hope the union can listen to its members and does not rule from an ivory tower.

  2. Is this not contrary to Article 22.2 of the KNZB swim own rules?

    "Dutch Winter Swimming Championships.
    a. The Dutch Winter Swimming Championships every year between December 1 and 30
    April organized "

    (Regelement on http://www.knzb.nl/StippWebDLL/Resources/Handlers/DownloadBestand.ashx?ID=1000011690 )

  3. What has not clearly stated in the news is that NEK 1 week, 2 weeks, and the competition has moved forward. Without any reason, actually, whether it should do with the NK kb have.
    In short, that means already reserved baths should be rescheduled for the league and the question is whether there is still place. Moreover, already scheduled districts that weekend, which also has consequences.

  4. NK should be the most important tournament for the entire Dutch top. Qualification for international tournaments does not quite happen during a championship. If calendar technically fit is of course nice to see the absolute top form at NK in action, but if they are not there, or not in top form, an NK is also a nice tournament.

    With this decision the KNZB deprives a lot of national and sub-elite top one of their two major tournaments. Limits swimming in September and in top form in October is impossible when a season begins around September 1st. Shift to January, I found a much better plan.

  5. End of school North Netherlands September 2, taper week 22 to 25 October
    So build in only 7 weeks to peak condition for NK Short Course what so many swimmers have their own charm and one of the three bright moments should be for the sub-elite.

    Perhaps it is time to put an organized counter action from the swimming clubs against these union officials and the (assistant) coaches selections and RTCs
    Everything we now turn to a very small group of stars that can go to European and World Short Course.
    The rest of the Netherlands job filling which may add to the wild ideas of the elite group

    There are more decisions in the past period which underpin this. Afterwards we talk all the crooked straight again.

  6. As often for half a reply (assistant) bondcaoches and the union.
    They are going to change the rules you can, but at this moment the old rules still apply.
    The article KNZB if necessary the regulations may aanpssen or otherwise deploy missing in this section of the regulations.

    Incidentally, on the KNZB site:

    The fixture swimming 2012-2013 is known. The calendar is during the annual meeting with the Circle Swim Committees last Thursday established.

    Have apparently yet 14 circles representatives are not realized what the impact of this change is the biggest group of swimmers that they are supposed to represent.
    Maybe action towards the KZC's to ask what arguments were used in this consultation .......

    Extending the limit period mi nothing to do with the much shorter period of preparation and fitness development to the peak moment NK KB
    This year the swimmers in North Netherlands screwed. But that of course is different each year.
    It means that already in the summer should start exercising / training structure, so that from the 1st full week of training (in September) can be dragged at full build in the next 7 weeks.

    Also sub-elite entitled to 6 weeks even really NOT think of swimming and it does so no longer.

    For the toppers to EYOF / EJK / EK / OS limit have met the ONK KB no longer feasible, since the (replacement) EYOF and Youth Championships and European Championships and OS mean that they in August / September, the rest are, than 4 weeks full again be at the start for the ONK KB seems impossible. Fortunately, that will have all limits than already, so limit games can be seen as a check point.

    If we are the 1st or 2nd week of December a ONK KB keep you just 5 or 6 weeks extra => one long or two short opbouwcyclussen additional and squint a big sip on a drink for the performance that can be delivered.

    Partly because of the choice in 2011 a NC LB extra to label as kwaificatiemoment for the OS and NK KB 2012 as qualifying time for European and World Championships KB and also bring forward ... .. is clear that choices made in Nieuwegein is! !
    Subtop and width athletes must comply with the optimization of schedules and qualifying times of the toppers. NK KB is an event that is no longer taken seriously. Hopefully this does not apply to the sub-elite and community sport.

  7. A person may perform at the European Championships Short Course when he was only on the NC Short Course has achieved the limit? There are no limits also known for the EC / WC Short Course in 2012.

  8. Harold, The competition is not just two weeks earlier. Perhaps with respect to the first calendar. Then, I have not seen. But the first league is always around October 1st. So sometimes late September.

    Furthermore KNZB in this way again a joke.
    Like politicians, their own rules / regulations not comply, and afterwards say that there is a change in the rules. HAHA.

  9. Kim: Have you right in itself, the calendar was not final and therefore the 1st competition round could still be moved. But I'm sure there are clubs get into trouble because they no longer can rent bathwater. Some bathe you need more than a year in advance to capture the bath. Either: The calendar is published for practical reasons too late, especially now that he is different from the provisional calendar.

    The fact that the first round can also take place in September, you're absolutely right, in 2007 was the first competition weekend 29th and 30th September.

  10. I do not why this NK as qualifying time should apply. Most of those who adhere to limits will prob be difficult in top form.

    1. If you still want a qualification time can easily these people an extra game to be organized. Seems to me a few years ago happens again, I think Fri EK Langebaan, as sub-elite are not "their NK robbed. And why not just let the swim cups with retroactive effect?

    2. Short Course tournaments are always drawn 25 and 50 limits. You may assume that when the contenders were in top form. For those few who then took the next extra game may be used.

  11. I would like to respond to the message from Frank. Of the 14 circles there were 12 groups present, as we show of hands with the circles (which had the ONK against the early date objections) were counted, then I can say that there had been at least 10 circles that opposed it, unfortunately KNZB found it necessary and has been said this to pass within the KNZB. The circles are in the interests of all their clubs and they are certainly aware of what this means for the swimmers. Some circles have even suggested boycotting the race, but obviously that's not the circles.
    Then the calendar was always like this concept and has been reported during the meeting circles, as also was the case, options for a bath then you also inferior to conservation.

  12. Kim: There is (or rather was) not for nothing more calendar years. There, on planned mainly by the Masters who want to stay as much as possible outside the NK and competites, but also for other races and as Martin says to arrange ahead of time bathwater for competitions ed. Now the consequence that you any longer can plan. In our bath in Eindhoven where rents the whole swimming world and beyond bathwater, you really need to be on time. Incidentally, I am told that you can swim at majeure best in another weekend league, but if that happened on a large scale as you got there for 3 weekends. Advice is so nice to stay in your reservation if you can not do otherwise.

  13. Harold, I'll give you quite right, especially in Eindhoven. Here do not play that way. We Limburg have until June the Delegates Assembly regarding the fixture. And then I will only apply for the bath. That can be happy. All will the coming season also more difficult since there is a new bath in 2013.

  14. Dianne
    If this is true, it is even sadder. The regulations are violated. For it to knit right afterwards we will adapt the regulations of course equally. The present members of the KZC are informed but apparently not taken seriously, because why would you calibrate your policy by allowing these experts to vote or to have their opinion taken into account in the final decision. Unbelievable. And then on your website mention as a smokescreen that the swimming calendar is determined by a meeting with the TCs. Maybe should Boards, KZC and TCs associations are all protesting via email against this undemocratic state of affairs. And swimmers may whopping two weeks longer hunt the limits so that we with the tongue on the slippers are at the start of the NK KB.
    Sin to demote a nice tournament to a lottery in the middle of the building while the toppers that the European and World Championships to swim KB limits just add to their training regime after major international tournaments this summer.
    KNZB ... turn this strange decision back!

  15. I am very curious about the answer of the KNZB to the last question in the introduction to this question.
    I fear that swimming Netherlands there are again suitable for everyone and again behind the absurd ideas of our TD and coaches obstruction. Too Bad.

  16. Leo: Shall we think that has to do with the recent holiday period :(

    The top will be well placed for just these two tournaments KB obv past performance and shape retention of the NK KB Be it performance on the international LB tournaments this summer.

    It is for the KNZB within the project the training camps in preparation for this tournament KB handy to early to know who the rest of the (second tier) population should participate in these training camps. Hence mid-October.
    Then it does not matter whether or not it fits nicely in the construction of the relevant sub-elite. 1tje more or less does not matter. That the rest of this beautiful swimming Netherlands tournament drilled through the nose is just ... .. c'est la vie ... shrug.

    You could almost be cynical :)

  17. Leo: Unfortunately no response from the KNZB but since Jacco and Titus both abroad are / were not entirely unexpected. Titus I think back in the country now, so in the short term more info.

    Incidentally, we would be fine to be able to choose to organize a tournament in early December and the Dutch Open Short Course as test event may consider (when the tournament gets).
    Less sharp limits 2 days with finals (Saturday and Sunday) and possibly direct finals on Friday night for the longer distances?
    Which weekend would be the best true?

  18. Uhm ... ridiculous that it is necessary, but tight plan. The weekend of the NK KB from the draft calendar but then :)

  19. Why not organize KNZB Swim Cup at the Short Course? In addition, at least the OS however goers can expect a ticket for EK and / or Short Course World Championships.

  20. Steven:
    The ASC KB is always organized by the Dolphin / NZA (in collaboration with the Royal Dutch Swimming Federation) end of October.
    Why the OS-goers must be specially treated .... and therefore the European Youth Championships ... swimmers. and OTT'ers and ... ..

    KB is different LB: OS-goers in the past year by the choice of the KNZB for LB tournaments in preparation for the OS (ONK KB autumn 2011 LB created ASC 2011 LB made ......) little 25 meters bathe seen, let alone an actual time have a qualifying tournament designated by the KNZB.
    Given the necessary rest and training structure of the OS-goers and EK KB and EJK participants indeed in July come into action seems a qualifying time in early December than opportune.

    But KNZB chooses itself to move the ONK KB to late October.
    Therefore ... like monks gander .... either all just swim to get your European and World Championships KB Limits on the ONK KB end of October, but without proper training building ......
    That I (also for OS-goers) find an undesirable situation is clear.

  21. From the KNZB indicated that they will provide only information through official channels and knzb.nl zwemkroniek.com.
    If there are trainers who are interested in the motivations of the KNZB for decisions taken, then she is always able to contact the KNZB. For more information about the movement of the ONC Short Course until October Titus Mennen is the right contact person.

  22. Leo wrote: I hope the union can listen to its members and does not rule from an ivory tower. Last ONK LB there was also a lot of whining, the Netherlands gave his opinion. Was accompanied listened ...... no. So I am afraid that this will now happen again.

  23. Casper: See my previous message and contact the KNZB. Giving an opinion is easy, there is something with / doing harder ;)

  24. Okay ... so if concerned parent (one of the major axes of the triangle) you only use a trainer - TC - KZC the opportunity to find out the reasons. That will be quite busy with requests for information through these channels. I know who I'm going to ask the circuit championships set :)

  25. Joost
    I think the swim cups always 50 meter pool games, I can not remember any ASC in a 25 meter pool, except for the junior / youth contest.
    The decision to keep the Dutch Open in December on the back burner, I can find in me. This allows the potential OS-goers get an additional opportunity to place themselves and the limits could be achieved in 25 or 50 meter pool, like the previous edition (s) is also possible.

    The decision to keep the ONK late October, however, can only be explained if one is going to use this as a placement match for the European Championship and World Cup short track, but if so then you could make this already known, eg. In the publication of the calendar. This could prevent a lot of chatter.

    I guess I'll mail to Titus going to send the request on short notice through the official channels (I actually did not think the Swim Chronicle is labeled as official) to make known what have been the reasons for scheduling the Dutch Open in October . Perhaps they can combine it with the publication of the program and its requirements.

  26. Today at 16:04 pm a mail sent to Titus and tonight had a reaction to 22:07 pm with a clear explanation.

  27. Give your positive or negative opinion about the relocation of the ONC. So follow the call / suggestion that has been done previously and mail to Titus. Save the diffidence of you and let him know how you feel about it.

  28. Dirk
    The explanation may be obvious, but that the main debate remains.

    The question is what choice the coaches, the Royal Dutch Swimming Federation and its constituents (KZC's TCs) with respect to the NK's?

    choice for the (sub) top .......
    qualification time at the ONK KB for international touring beautiful when it is convenient (end of October)
    or
    choice for all potential ONK KB populations ......
    date ONK KB (December / January) that best fits the training structure of the whole ONK KB swimmers population with you, bearing in mind the sport, taking into account the staggered holidays accepted captured and wide by the government in society => summer vacation runs from the last week of June until the 1st week of September!

    Either we do not assume that we middle to start in the summer with full-time training for only the club's top selection, regardless of whether that given the holiday season of pool staff in the various municipalities in the first place is to organize the holiday, some baths are simply closed because the staff is needed in outdoor pools / water park and also independently of any additional rental of bathing water.

    And yes the (families of) swimmers benefit from six weeks of real holiday: no school, no swimming;
    that sometimes already in the first training within the project to build his vacation is anything other than a full week of training from 14 -20 hours.

  29. Dirk,

    Can you show that clear explanation?

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