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ONK Short Course end of October (updated 16-5-2012)

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The on site KNZB fixture next season appeared with one very striking fact.
The Dutch Open Championship In contrast to previous years, Short Course not take place in early December 2012 but already late October.
The tournament which will probably also serve as a qualifying tournament for the European and World Championships Short Course, both of which take place in December, is scheduled for the weekend of 26th, 27th and 28th of October.

It should at least be mentioned that the striking KNZB has taken this decision. In a post-Olympic season is the motivation of top swimmers to take part in the European and World Championships Short Course often limited. If they decide to keep equally delicious holiday, after the Olympic Games will be a qualifier in late October also very early.
Should the tournament meant for swimmers who do not appear at the start in London, then the impact of the shift is very large for a very small group with realistic qualification chances.
Would be a World Cup for the swimmers who are motivated / promising even contest regarded as qualifier. Can be These are scheduled for 13/14 of October (Stockholm), 17-18 October (Moscow) and 20/12 of October (Berlin).

For northern Netherlands the new date of the ONC also means that it will fall into the second weekend of the autumn, for middle and southern Netherlands falls on the weekend after the autumn.

Update (25-4-2012): we Partly in response to the comments below contacted KNZB and put the following mail deposited:

The new calendar of 2012-2013 the Dutch Open Short Course is scheduled for late October, is this correct?

As a trainer I think this is a very undesirable situation.
By abolishing the 25m pool limits for summer NK clubs / swimmers are 'forced' to all their matches to swim as much as possible from February / March in a 50m pool. This means that there is less swum in a 25m pool, and swimmers will have to get their limits for the Dutch Open Short Course even after the summer holidays. With a limit period which closes the beginning of October that is practically impossible.

Furthermore, I think it is also against the rules from the KNZB itself:
"Dutch Winter Swimming Championships.
a. The Dutch Winter Swimming Championships annually between December 1 and 30
April organized "

In this mail we received the following response:

The ONK kb is indeed scheduled for late October.
Your mail, which you say you have a hard time with a trainer, I have also forwarded to Titus Mennen.
The limit period from next season extended for all National Championships. This will mean that the deadline to register will be placed on Oct 15 and one t / m Oct. 14 can achieve the limits.
There is also an amendment of the regulations in the making, we modify the rules at that point

Of course we have here again responded, this time with the question of why this rather radical change.
Is from KNZB indicated that they will only provide information through official channels and
If they can, there are trainers who are interested in the motives of the KNZB for decisions made, do not hesitate to contact KNZB itself. For more information about the movement of the Dutch Open Short Course for October Titus Mennen the right contact person.

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  1. Giant is a pity such a decision for the sport. A short period of time in order to reach a limit. a training structure that even the coach does not get in his planning and thus devaluing the tournament. Incidentally, I received the signal that this shift is not unique. The rest of the Netherlands should again give way to maybe this time very select group of swimmers. I understand that should the qualification for a tournament take place but for the exposure of swimming yet you want to see your toppers. On NK They do not go swimming so soon after the OS. Losers widely. Will have swimming Netherlands If such decisions are not longer tolerate action. I hope the union can listen to its members and not reign in an ivory tower.

  2. Is this not contrary to Article 22.2 of the KNZB swim own rules?

    "Dutch Winter Swimming Championships.
    a. The Dutch Winter Swimming Championships annually between December 1 and 30
    April organized "

    (Regelement on )

  3. What is not yet clearly evident in the reports is that the NEK one week, and the league is two weeks shifted forward. This actually without any reason, or the need to have to do with the NK kb.
    In short, that means already reserved prayed for the competition must be rescheduled and the question is whether there is still place. Have already scheduled Moreover neighborhoods in those weekends, which also has consequences.

  4. A NK should be the main event for the entire Dutch summit. Qualification for international tournaments does not have to happen during a NK. If calendar technically fit is of course nice to see the absolute top shape on a NK in action, but if they are not there, or is not in top form, an NK also a nice tournament.

    With this decision the KNZB deprives a lot of national and sub-elite toppers one of their two major tournaments. Limits swimming in September and in top form in October is impossible as a season pass starts around September 1st. Shift to January, I had a much better plan found.

  5. End of school Northern Netherlands September 2, taper week 22 to 25 October
    So build in just seven weeks to peak condition for NK Short Course which for many swimmers as their own charm and should be one of the three bright moments for the sub-elite.

    Maybe it's time to set up an organized counteraction against these union officials and (assistant) coaches selections from swimming clubs and RTCs
    Everything we now focus on a very small group of stars to European and World Championships Short Course can.
    The rest of the Netherlands job filling that must comply with the wild ideas of the elite group

    There are more decisions in the past period to substantiate this. Afterwards we talk all the crooked straight again.

  6. As often again half an answer of (assistant) bondcaoches and the union.
    That they change the regulations that, but at this time the old rules still apply.
    The article that KNZB may, if considered necessary or otherwise implement the regulations aanpssen was missing in this section of the regulations.

    Incidentally, the KNZB site:

    The fixture swim 2012-2013 is known. The calendar was adopted at the annual meeting with the Circle Swim Committees last Thursday.

    Have apparently still 14 circle representatives are not realized what the impact of this change is the largest group of swimmers who they are supposed to represent.
    Maybe an action towards the KZC's to ask what arguments were used in these consultations .......

    Extending the limit period mi nothing to do with the much shorter time of preparation and fitness development to the peak moment NK KB
    This year the swimmers in the northern Netherlands screwed. But that is of course different every year.
    It means that there should be started in the summer exercising / training structure so that it can be from the 1st full week of training (in September) full dragged to build in the next seven weeks.

    Also sub-elite are entitled to six weeks really NOT even think of swimming and that works if not more.

    For the toppers to EYOF / EJK / EK / OS have met the ONK KB limit is no longer feasible, since the (replacement) EYOF and European Youth Championships and European Championships and OS mean that in August / September they still rest are at the than 4 weeks are full again at the start of the ONK KB seems impossible. Fortunately, it will be possible that all limits already have, so limit games seen as check moment.

    If we have a ONK KB hold the 1st or 2nd week of December, you just have extra => 5 or 6 weeks one long or two short opbouwcyclussen extra and squint a big sip on a cocktail of performance that can be delivered.

    Keep Partly by choice in 2011 NK LB extra if kwaificatiemoment the OS to label and NK KB 2012 as qualifying time for European and World Championships KB and also to bring forward ... .. is clear what choices made in Nieuwegein! Is !
    Subtop and width athletes must comply with the optimization of schedules of the toppers. And qualification moments The NK KB is an event that is no longer taken seriously. Hopefully this does not apply to sub-elite and recreational sport.

  7. Can someone be performing at the Short Course Championships when he was only on the NK Short Course achieved the limit? There are no known limits for the EC / Short Course World Championships in 2012.

  8. Harold, The competition is not just two weeks earlier. Perhaps with respect to the first calendar. Can, which I have not seen. But the first league is always around October 1st. So sometimes late September.

    Furthermore, the KNZB this way again a joke.
    Like politicians, their own rules / regulations do not comply, and after saying that there is a change in the rules comes. HAHA.

  9. Kim: In itself, you're right, the calendar was not final and the 1st league round could be moved. However I'm sure there are associations get into trouble because they can no longer rent bathwater. Some you have to bathe beforehand capture more than a year the bath. Either: the calendar is from the practical viewpoint published too late, especially now that he is different from the provisional calendar.

    The fact that the first round can take place in September you're absolutely right, in 2007 was the first league weekend 29th and 30th September.

  10. I do not understand why these NK as qualifying time should apply. Most of those who adhere to limits will be able to ws hard to be in top shape.

    1. If you still want a qualification time an additional game could be organized with ease for these people. Is to me a few years ago happen again, according to Fr EK me Langebaan, are their sub-elite NK if not deprived of. " And why not just let the swim cups retroactively apply?

    2. 25 and 50 limits for Short Course tournaments always prepared. You may assume that when the contenders were in top form. Additional competition may be for those few who then next intervention used.

  11. I would like to respond to the message from Frank. Of the 14 circles, there were 12 groups present, if we can say with a show of hands circles (who had objections against the early date of the ONK) were counted, then you say that at least 10 circles had been there that were opposed to it, unfortunately found the KNZB necessary and has been said to pass this within the KNZB. The circles are in the interests of all their associations and they are certainly aware of what this means for the swimmers. Some circles have even suggested a boycott of the game, but that's obviously not the circles.
    Then the calendar was always like this concept and has been reported during the meeting circles, as is also now been the case options for a bath then then you subject to any do.

  12. Kim: There is (or rather was) not for nothing a multi-year calendar. There, on planned mainly by the Masters who want to stay outside the NK and competites much as possible, but also for other races and as Martin says to plenty of time arranging bath water for leagues ed. Now the consequence that you any longer can plan. You should be our tub in Eindhoven where the whole swimming world and beyond bathwater rents, real time. Incidentally, I am told that you can swim in majeure best in another weekend competition, but when that happens on a large scale have so three weekends for that. Advice is so nice to stay with you reservation if you can not do otherwise.

  13. Harold, I give you quite right, especially in Eindhoven. This does not play that way. We have also in Limburg until June the Delegates Assembly regarding the fixture. And then I will only request the bath. That can be happy. All of it is also more difficult, for next season as in 2013, a new bath.

  14. Dianne
    If this is true, it is even sadder. The regulations are flouted. It we're going afterwards to knit the regulations of course have to adapt. The present members of the KZC are informed but apparently not taken seriously, because why would you calibrate policy by allowing these experts to vote or to have their views taken into account in the final decision. Unbelievable. And then on your website as a smokescreen to mention that the swimming calendar is adopted at a meeting with the TC's. Perhaps Boards, KZC and TCs associations are all protesting via email against this undemocratic. And the swimmers may whopping two weeks longer hunt the limits, so we went with the tongue on the slippers are at the start of the NK KB.
    Sin for a nice tournament degrade to a lottery in the middle of the building while the toppers that the European and World Championships KB limits should swim just add to their training building after major international tournaments this summer.
    KNZB ... turn this weird decision back!

  15. I am very curious about the answer of the KNZB to the last question in the introduction to this question.
    I fear that there are swimming Netherlands but again arranges and everyone but starting on back behind the absurd ideas of our TD and coaches. Pity.

  16. Leo: Shall we think it has to do with the recent holiday season :(

    The toppers will be simply placed these two KB tournaments ob past performance and shape retention of the NK KB Be it performance on the international LB tournaments this summer.

    Then the KNZB ihkv training camps leading up to this KB tournaments handy to know who asked to participate in these training camps from the rest of the (second tier) population. Hence mid-October.
    It does not matter whether or not nice fit in the structure of the relevant sub-elite. 1tje more or less does not matter. That the rest of swimming Netherlands this beautiful tournament drilled through the nose is just ... .. c'est la vie ... shrug.

    You could almost cynically :)

  17. Leo: Unfortunately no response from the KNZB, but since Jacco and Titus both his / abroad were not entirely unexpected. Titus seems to me back in the country now, so in the short term more info.

    We would be fine for Incidentally choose to organize early December and the ONK Short Course as a test event tournament may consider (if you already get the tournament).
    Less sharp limits finals two days (Saturday and Sunday) and possibly direct finals on Friday night for longer distances?
    What would be the best weekend then come out?

  18. Uhm ... of crazy that it is necessary, but tight plan. The weekend of the NK KB in the draft calendar but then :)

  19. Why not organize KNZB Swim Cup at the Short Course? The OS-goers can also at least count on a ticket for EK and / or Short Course World Championships.

  20. Steven:
    The ASC KB is always organized by the Dolphin / NZA (in collaboration with the KNZB) end of October.
    Why OS-goers need special treatment .... and also the European Youth Championships swimmers .... and OTT'ers and ... ..

    KB is different LB: OS-goers in the past year by the choice of the KNZB for LB tournaments in preparation for the OS (LB is made ONK KB autumn 2011, ASC 2011 is made ...... LB) little 25 meters bathing seen, let alone have an actual time on a qualifier designated by the KNZB.
    Given the rest of the required OS-goers and EK KB and training structure and EJK participants who, after all, come into action in July seems to be a qualifying time early December opportune.

    But the KNZB itself chooses the ONK the KB to move to end of October.
    Therefore equal ... monks gander .... either all just swim to your European and World Championships KB Limits up at the ONK KB end of October, but without proper training building ......
    I think that (also for OS-goers) an undesirable situation is clear.

  21. Is from KNZB indicated that they will only provide information through official channels and
    If they can, there are trainers who are interested in the motives of the KNZB for decisions made, do not hesitate to contact KNZB itself. For more information about the movement of the Dutch Open Short Course for October Titus Mennen the right contact person.

  22. Leo writes: I hope the union can listen to its members and not reign in an ivory tower. Last ONK LB there was also a lot of whining, the Netherlands gave his opinion. Was accompanied listened ...... no. So I'm afraid this will happen again.

  23. Casper: See my previous message and contact the KNZB. Giving an opinion is easy, something with / to do difficult ;)

  24. Okay ... so as a parent concerned (one of the axes of the main triangle) you only by a trainer - the ability to identify the reasons KZC -. TC That will or are busy with requests for information through these channels. I know to whom I ask the circuit championships going to ask :)

  25. Joost
    I think the cups always swim 50 meter pool games, I can not remember any ASC in a 25 meter pool, except the junior / youth competition.
    The choice to keep the ONK in December on the back burner, I find myself in it. As a result, the potential OS goers get an additional opportunity to place themselves and the limits could be achieved in 25 or 50 meter pool, like the previous edition (s) was also possible.

    The choice to keep the ONK end of October, however, only be explained if one is going to use it as a placement contest for the European and World Championships short course, but if so would it be possible to make this already known, eg. In publishing the calendar. This would avoid a lot of chatter.

    I think I'll send an email to Titus go with the request in the short term through the official channels (by the way, I did not know the Swim Chronicle as officially designated) to the reasons have been for the planning of the Dutch Open in October known . Maybe they can combine it with the publication of the program and the rules.

  26. This afternoon at 16:04 pm sent an email to Titus and tonight at 22:07 pm received a response with a clear explanation.

  27. Give your positive or negative opinion about the relocation of the ONC. So follow the call / suggestion previously made and mail to Titus. Save the hesitation from you and let him know how you feel about it.

  28. Dirk
    The explanation might be obvious, but the main discussion therefore remains intact.

    The question is which choice the coaches, the KNZB and its constituents (KZC's, TC's) with respect to the NK's?

    choice for the (sub) toppers .......
    qualifying time in the ONK KB international touring beautiful when it suits (end of October)
    choice for all potential ONK KB populations ......
    Date ONK KB (December / January) that best fits the training structure of the whole ONK KB swimmers populations, in which, bearing in mind the sport, taking into account the principles established by the government and widely accepted in society staggered holidays => the summer runs from the last week of June until the 1st week of September!

    Either we are not assuming that we start in the middle of the summer with full time training for only the top selection of the club, regardless of whether that is organizing at all during the holiday season as the vacation of pool staff in the various municipalities, some baths are just closed because the staff is needed in the outdoor pools / water park and apart from any additional rental charges of bathing water.

    And yes, the (families of) swimmers benefit from 6 weeks real holiday: no school, no swimming;
    that sometimes in the holiday ihkv building already first training is something other than a full training week of 14 -20 hours.

  29. Dirk,

    Can you See? That clear explanation

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