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ONK short course in late October (updated 16-5-2012)

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The KNZB site is the fixture list next season appeared with one very striking fact.
Unlike previous years, the Dutch Open Championships Short Course in 2012 will not take place in early December, but already late October.
The tournament, which probably also will serve as qualifier for the European and World Championships Short Course, both of which take place in December, service is scheduled for the weekend of 26, 27 and October 28.

It may be called at least remarkable that the KNZB has taken this decision. In a post-Olympic season is the motivation of top swimmers to take part in the European and World Championships Short Course section often limited. If they decide to hold equally delicious holiday after the Olympics is a qualifier in late October on very early.
If the tournament meant for swimmers who do not show up at the start in London, then the impact of the shift very large for a very small group with realistic chances of qualifying.
For swimmers who are motivated / promising, would also be a World Cup race could be used as qualifier. Classified These are scheduled for 13/14 of October (Stockholm), 17/18 of October (Moscow) and 20/12 of October (Berlin).

For northern Netherlands the new date of the ONK also means that it will fall to the middle and south in the second weekend of the autumn Netherlands falls on the weekend after the autumn.

Update (25-4-2012): Partly in response to the comments below, we contacted the KNZB and put the following mail deposited:

The new calendar of 2012-2013 is the ONK Short Course scheduled for late October, is this correct?

As a trainer, this seems a very undesirable situation.
By abolishing the 25m pool limits for summer NK clubs / swimmers are 'forced' to since February / March their matches to swim in a 50m pool as possible. This means that there is less swum in a 25m pool is so swimmers will have their limits for the ONK short course should achieve. Still after the summer holidays With a limit period closes in early October that is virtually impossible.

Furthermore, I think it is also against the regulations of the KNZB itself:
"Dutch Winter Swimming Championships.
a The Dutch Winter Swimming Championships annually between December 1 and 30
April organized "

In this mail we received the following response:

The ONK kb is indeed scheduled for late October.
Your mail, telling us there as a trainer along to have trouble, I also forwarded to Titus Mennen.
The limit shall be extended to all NK's next season. This will mean that the deadline to register is on Oct. 15 to stand up and be t / m Oct 14. The limits can be achieved.
There is also an amendment of the regulations in the making, which we modify the rules at that point

Obviously, we have once again responded here, this time with the question of why this rather radical change of course.
From the KNZB indicated that they will provide through official channels and only. Information
If there are trainers who are interested in the motives of the KNZB decisions, for they can always contact the KNZB themselves. For more information about the movement of the ONK Short Course in October Titus Mennen the right contact person.

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  1. Giant pity such a decision for the sport. A short period to reach a limit. a training structure that even the coach does not get in its planning and thus devaluing the tournament. Incidentally, I received the signal that this shift is not unique. Again, the rest of the Netherlands differ for maybe this time very select group of swimmers. I understand that qualifying for a tournament to take place but for the exposure of swimming you'd also like to see you on top of the NK. That do not swim so soon after the OS. Losers everywhere. If swimming Netherlands no longer tolerate such decisions will have to take action. I hope the union can listen to its members and does not reign in an ivory tower.

  2. Is not inconsistent with Article 22.2 of the KNZB-bathing own rules?

    "Dutch Winter Swimming Championships.
    a The Dutch Winter Swimming Championships annually between December 1 and 30
    April organized "

    (Site rules on )

  3. What is not yet clearly evident in the reports is that the NEK 1 week, 2 weeks, and the competition is shifted forward. This is actually no reason, or it must have to do with the NK kb.
    In short, that means already reserved prayed for the competition must be rescheduled and the question is whether there is still place. Moreover scheduled games already have neighborhoods that weekend, which also has consequences.

  4. NK should be the main event for the entire Dutch summit. Qualification for international tournaments does not have to happen. During NK If that calendar technically fit is of course nice to see the absolute top form at NK in action, but if they are not there, or is not in top form, is an NK also a nice tournament.

    This decision takes away a lot of the KNZB national champions and subtoppers one of their two major tournaments. Limits swimming in September and in top form in October is impossible if one season only starts around September 1. Shift to January I had a much better plan found.

  5. End School North Netherlands September 2, taper week 22 to 25 October
    So build in just 7 weeks to a peak condition for the National Championships Short Course what many swimmers as their own charm and one of the three bright moments should be for subtoppers.

    Maybe it's time to set against these union officials and (assistant) national coaches selections and RTCs from the swimming clubs organized action against
    Everything we turn now to a very small group of stars that can at European and World Championships Short Course.
    The rest of the Netherlands job filling which may add to the wild ideas of this elite group

    There are more decisions in the past period which support this view. Afterwards we talk all the crooked straight again.

  6. As often again half an answer of (assistant) bondcaoches and the union.
    They are going to change the rules you can, but at this moment the old rules still apply.
    The article KNZB if deemed necessary, the regulations may implement aanpssen or else was lacking in this section of the regulations.

    Incidentally, the KNZB site:

    The fixture has been known to swim 2012-2013. The calendar is during the annual consultations with the Circle Swim Committees, last Thursday, established.

    Have apparently still 14 circuit representatives are not realized what the impact of this change is the biggest group of swimmers that they are supposed to represent.
    Perhaps a move towards the KZC's to ask what arguments were used in this consultation .......

    Extending the limit period mi nothing to do with the much shorter time of preparation and fitness development to the peak moment NK KB
    This year the swimmers in Northern Netherlands screwed. But this year is different, of course.
    It means that there should already be started exercising / training structure, so that from the 1st full week of training (in September) can be dragged to the building in the next seven weeks. Packed in the summer

    Subtoppers also entitled to six weeks just really NOT think of swimming and it does so no longer.

    For the toppers to EYOF / EJK / EK / OS limits are met, the ONK KB not feasible, since the (replacement) EYOF and European Youth Championships and European Championships and OS results in their August / September are still equipping, than 4 weeks are full again at the start of the ONK KB seems impossible. Fortunately, all of which will limit or already have, so limit games can be seen as a check point.

    If we ONK KB hold the 1st or 2nd week of December, you just have 5 or 6 weeks extra => one long or two short opbouwcyclussen additional and squint a big sip on a drink for the performance that can be delivered.

    Partly because of the choice in 2011 to keep as kwaificatiemoment for the OS to label an extra LB NK and NK KB 2012 as qualifying time for European and World Championships KB and also to bring forward ..... is on the choices made in Nieuwegein is! !
    Subtop and width athletes must comply with the optimization of schedules and qualification of the top moments. The NK KB is an event that is no longer taken seriously. Hopefully this does not apply to the subtoppers and sport.

  7. Can someone be performing at the European Short Course Short Course only if he has obtained the limit? On NK There are no known limits for the EC / World Short Course Championships in 2012.

  8. @ Harold, the competition is not just two weeks earlier. Perhaps with respect to the first calendar. Then, I have not seen. But the first league is always around October 1. So sometimes late September.

    Furthermore KNZB this way again a joke.
    Like politicians, non-compliance with its own rules / regulations, and after saying that there is a change in the regulations comes. HAHA.

  9. @ Kim: you are right in itself, the calendar was not final and therefore the 1st round of competition could be moved yet. But I'm sure there are clubs get into trouble because they can hire. Bathwater no longer Some pools you have the bath to capture more than a year in advance. Either: The calendar is published for practical reasons too late, especially now that he is different from the provisional calendar.

    The fact that the first round can also take place in September, you're absolutely right, in 2007 was the first league weekend 29th and 30th September.

  10. I do not understand why these NK as qualifying time should apply. Most of those who adhere to limits will ws difficult to be in top form.

    1. If you still want a qualification time can easily these people an extra race will be organized. Seems to me a few years ago, once done, I think Fri EK Langebaan, so subtoppers not be deprived of "their NK. And why not just the swim cups assert? Retroactively

    2. Kortebaan For tournaments always 25 and 50 limits are established. You may assume that the contenders were then in top form. For those few who took the extra time next match can be used.

  11. I would like to reply to Frank. Of the 14 circles, there were 12 channels available, if we circles (who had objected to the early date of the ONK) were counted by a show of hands, I can tell you that there had been certain that there were at, unfortunately 10 circles found KNZB necessary and it is said that by giving in KNZB. The circles are in the interests of all their associations and they are certainly aware of what this means for the swimmers. Some circles have even suggested boycotting the game but that is obviously not the circles.
    Then the calendar was always like this concept and is indeed established during the meeting circles, as it now has been the case in a bath options whatsoever that you are under preservation to do.

  12. @ Kim: there is (or rather was) not without a multi-year calendar. There, on planned, especially the Masters who want to stay outside the NK and competites much as possible, but also for other races and as Martin says to well arrange for competitions bathwater on time etc. Now the consequence that you any longer can plan. In our bath in Eindhoven, where the whole world and beyond swimming pool of leases, you really need to be on time. Incidentally, I am told that in another weekend competition can swim, suits force but if that happened on a large scale you got there so for three weekends. Advice is so nice to stay if you have to. With your reservation

  13. @ Harold, I'll give you quite right, and certainly in Eindhoven. Here do not play that way. We have also in Limburg until June the Delegates Assembly regarding the fixture. And then I'm going to the bath only request. That can be happy. Though it is also more difficult, for next season as there is a new bathtub in 2013.

  14. @ Dianne
    If this is true, it is even sadder. The regulations are flouted. To put it right afterwards we go to the regulations of course some adjusting. The members of the KZC's present are informed but apparently not taken seriously, because why would you calibrate policy by the experts to vote or express their views into account in the final decision. Unbelievable. And then on your website mention as a smokescreen that swim calendar was adopted in a meeting with the TC's. You may have to circle drive, KZC and TCs associations are all protesting via email against this undemocratic state of affairs. And swimmers may whopping two weeks longer hunt in the limits, so we went with the tongue on the slippers are at the start of the NK KB.
    Sin to degrade to a lottery in the middle of the building while the top that the European and World Championships KB limits should swim just add to their training building after major international tournaments this summer. Nice tournament
    KNZB ... turn this strange decision back!

  15. I am very curious about the response of the KNZB to the last question in the introduction to this question.
    I fear that swimming Netherlands there are again suitable for everyone and only after restart of the absurd ideas of our TD and national coaches. Pity.

  16. @ Leo: shall we think it has to do with the recent holiday season : (

    The top will be simply placed these two tournaments KB obv past performance and shape retention of the NK KB Be it performance on the international LB tournaments this summer.

    Then it is for the KNZB ihkv training camps in preparation for this tournament KB handy early to know who should participate. From the rest of the (second tier) population in these training camps Hence mid-October.
    Then it does not matter whether or not this nice fit in the structure of the relevant subtoppers. 1tje also makes more or fewer than not. That the rest of this beautiful swimming Netherlands tournament drilled through the nose is just ..... c'est la vie ... shrug.

    You would almost be cynical :)

  17. @ Leo: Unfortunately no response from the KNZB, but since Jacco and Titus both abroad are / were not entirely unexpected. Titus was to me back in the country now, so possible in the short term more info.

    Incidentally, we would be able to choose to organize a tournament in early December and the ONK short course may consider (if you already took the tournament). Well as a test event
    Less stringent limits, 2 days with finals (Saturday and Sunday) and possibly direct finals on Friday night for the longer distances?
    What would be the best weekend out?

  18. Uhm ... of crazy that it is necessary, but tight plan. The weekend of the NK KB in the draft calendar but then :)

  19. Why not organize KNZB Swim Cup at the Short Course? In addition, in any case, the OS-goers be able to count on a ticket for European and / or World Championships Short Course.

  20. @ Steven:
    The ASC KB is always organized by the Dolphin / NZA (in collaboration KNZB) in late October.
    Why the OS-goers must be specially treated .... and also the European Youth Championships swimmers .... and OTT'ers and .....

    KB is different LB: OS-goers in the past year by the choice of the KNZB for LB tournaments in preparation for the OS (ONK KB autumn 2011 LB created ASC 2011 LB made ......) little 25 meters seen bathing, let alone have a current time designated by the KNZB qualifying tournament.
    Given the needed rest and training structure of the OS-goers and EK KB and EJK participants which are still coming into action in July seems to be a qualifying time early December expedient.

    But KNZB chooses himself for the ONK move to end of October. KB
    Therefore ... equal monks gander .... either all just swim to get you in the ONK KB late October, European and World Championships KB limits than without proper training build ......
    I think that's an undesirable situation (for the OS-goers) is obvious.

  21. From the KNZB indicated that they will provide through official channels and only. Information
    If there are trainers who are interested in the motives of the KNZB decisions, for they can always contact the KNZB themselves. For more information about the movement of the ONK Short Course in October Titus Mennen the right contact person.

  22. Leo wrote: I hope the union can listen to its members and does not reign in an ivory tower. Last ONK LB there was also a lot of whining, the Netherlands gave his opinion. Listened accom ...... no. So I am afraid that this will happen. Once again

  23. @ Casper: see my previous message and contact the KNZB. Giving an opinion is easy, something with / to make difficult ;)

  24. Okay ... so as a parent involved (one of the major axes of the triangle), you need only use a trainer - TC - KZC the ability to identify the reasons. That will have to be busy with requests for information through these channels. I know who I'm going to ask the circuit championships set :)

  25. @ Joost
    I think the cups always swim 50 meter pool games, I can not remember any ASC in a 25 meter pool, except the junior / youth competition.
    The choice to keep the ONK in December on the back burner I can find in me. This gives the potential OS-goers an additional opportunity to place themselves and the limits could be achieved in 25 or 50 meter pool, as the previous edition (s) was also possible.

    The choice to keep the ONK late October, however, can only be explained if one is going to use as a placement match for the European Championship and World Cup short track, but if so then they had to rely on them, for example by publishing the already known calendar. This would avoid a lot of chatter.

    I think I'm an email to Titus go forward with a request in the short term through the official channels (by the way, I did not know that the Swim Chronicle is labeled as officially) to which have been responsible for the planning of the Dutch Open in October reasons known . Maybe they can combine with the publication of the program and the rules.

  26. This afternoon at 16:04 pm an email sent to Titus and 22:07 pm tonight got a response with a clear explanation.

  27. Give your positive or negative opinion about the relocation of the ONK. So follow the call / suggestion made earlier and mail to Titus. Save the trepidation of you and let him know how you feel about it.

  28. @ Dirk
    The explanation may be obvious, but this remains the main discussion intact.

    The question is which choice the national coaches, KNZB and its constituents (KZC's, TC's) with respect to the NK's?

    choice for the (sub) top .......
    qualifying time in the ONK KB international touring beautiful when it suits (end of October)
    choice for all potential ONK KB population ......
    date ONK KB (December / January) that best fits the training structure of the whole ONK KB swimmers populations, where you, bearing in mind the grassroots, taking into account the principles established by the government and widely accepted in society staggered holidays => summer vacation runs from the last week of June to the 1st week of September!

    Either we do not assume that we start in the middle of the summer with full time training for only the top selection of the club, regardless of whether it is to organize as the vacation of pool staff in the various municipalities at all in the holiday season, some pools are simply closed because the staff needed in the outdoor pools / leisure pool and quite apart from any additional rental costs of bathing water.

    And yes, the (families of) swimmers benefit from 6 weeks of real vacation: no school, no swimming;
    that sometimes the holiday ihkv building already initial training is something other than a full training week of 14 -20 hours.

  29. @ Dirk,

    Can you show that clear explanation?

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